What we learnt from a rough and tumble finance debate

Analysis - National's Nicola Willis and Labour's Barbara Edmonds turned up to Queenstown ready for a bit of rough and tumble on Wednesday evening.The ASB Great debate featuring cross-party finance spokespeople has a history of getting a bit rowdy, and while it's often the large audience responsible for a lot of that, this year it was the panelists leading the charge.In addition to Willis and Edmonds the 800-strong southern crowd got served up Act's David Seymour, New Zealand First's Shane Jones, the Greens' Chlöe Swarbrick, and newcomer Qiulae Wong of the Opportunity party.Stood side-by-side in the middle of the panel of five, Willis and Edmonds scrapped it out about the government's Investment Boost and Labour's plan to scrap it and replace it with a policy that targets small businesses.Debate moderator TVNZ's Jack Tame asked Edmonds what a business like Coronet Peak, which has benefitted from Investment Boost's tax support for businesses would do without it, Edmonds fired back "I don't have to copy Nicola, we are two very different people" to huge applause from the crowd.In an unusual twist, Swarbrick and Jones paired up regularly throughout the debate, and were highly amused by the scrap playing out in the middle of the panel, leading Jones to pipe up and suggest the Green co-leader "offer some clarity".Edmonds held her ground against Willis however, saying in her opening remarks she would be the next finance minister: "Not Chlöe Swarbrick and not Nicola Willis - Barbara Edmonds the MP for Kenepuru will be."Seymour summarised the Willis and Edmonds showdown saying: "It's like two bald men fighting over a comb in the middle there."Jones also received some big laughs in his opening remarks when he detailed how slow and clogged up the economy had become, shouting: "Look at my beloved fast-track, it's turned into a constipated beast."Tax was also a big talking point with Wong, Edmonds, and Swarbrick given a shot at pitching their respective land, capital gains, and wealth tax proposals to the audience.The debate descended into sledges and lots of shouting as Willis and Seymour took their turns picking holes in them all.Swarbrick revved up at Willis, who said Labour would introduce a capital gains tax (CGT) and Swarbrick who wants a wealth tax would "kick the door wide open" and expand it.Given an opportunity to respond, Swarbrick harked back "to a time even I can remember" when National criticised the international visitor levy, only to then increase it when in government.Seymour was highly amused by that, quipping: "I love how Chlöe said she was old enough to remember something that happened in 2018."A new coalition also came out of the tax debate when Wong, Edmonds, Jones and Swarbrick were all asked whether they would support a bed tax for Queenstown if in government, and it was a unanimous yes from them all, much to the delight of the crowd.Another big laugh came when Willis and Seymour were in the thick of a debate on breaking up the supermarkets and Jones interrupted to say: "Now you know what our Cabinet meetings are like."Seymour - not one to miss an opportunity - replied: "One person has to bring the basic economics to Cabinet, that's exactly what it's like!"One of the final topics rounding out the debate was the issue of superannuation and how the country will afford it in years to come.All of the politicians were asked if they supported being part of a cross-party review on the country's retirement future.Seymour said he would entertain it with a yes, but noted he was disappointed it wasn't a big feature of the debate overall, given what a significant issue it is.Wong was supportive, saying Opportunity needed to be in Parliament and in the room "to be the broker in a heated environment where people don't agree and have proven not to hold themselves accountable to long-term plans".Edmonds acknowledged Willis who had agreed to the idea with her at the weekend. Willis returned that and said she too wanted to celebrate Edmonds on that front but added she was disappointed the conversation hadn't happened during this term, which she blamed on Labour.Swarbrick was also in the 'yes' camp but said the "missing piece" in this election was also talking about investment in climate change adaptation and planning.Jones was less definitive, saying he wouldn't agree to joining a working group "designed to move criteria or move the age of super" which he said would "bully our senior people", but was open to discussing anything that might deepen the country's savings for retirement.