'Drained us': Widow says Hellenic Club taught her to bypass pokie cash limits

A Canberra woman whose husband died by suicide amid mounting gambling debts, says the Hellenic Club taught them how to get around gambling regulations and withdraw up to 7 times more cash than is permitted for poker machines.Raimo (Ray) and Marlene Kasurinen lost at least $345,000 on the pokies at the Hellenic Club, Ray died from suicide in March 2020.The ACT Civil and Administrative Tribunal (ACAT) found the Hellenic Club breached gambling regulations by allowing Mrs Kasurinen to withdraw more than the permitted $200 cash via EFTPOS at the club on 45 occasions.On one occasion, she was allowed to take out $1,400 in seven withdrawals within two hours.Mrs Kasurinen said club staff introduced them to the workaround."We didn't know anything about the EFTPOS machines until the club staff people told us," she said."Ray and I were walking home about 10:30pm, out the doors, as a staff member came running up to us and said, 'Oh where are you guys going?'"Mrs Kasurinen said she and her husband had already withdrawn the maximum $200 in cash for the evening and lost the money on the pokies."I said, 'We're not going to leave and get more money out of ATMs and come back in, we're going home.'"He said, 'Here's another option for you, you can get money out of the EFTPOS here at $200 increments at a time to whatever your maximum limit is on your card.'"The ABC put detailed questions to the Hellenic Club, but it declined to comment as the matter was still before ACAT.'It drained us completely'Mrs Kasurinen said her use of pokie machines had increased following the deaths of her brother and daughter."It was my way of escaping some horrendous things that had happened in the past," she said.Marlene Kasurinen with her late husband Raimo Kasurinen. (Supplied)She said the club often gave the Kasurinens free meals "oysters, surf and turf", cakes, coffees, milkshakes and that they "were treated like VIPs", which made them feel special.Mrs Kasurinen said she now feels they were "groomed" by the club."Just so that we would put more money in the machines, stay at the club longer, feed the machines," she said."I fell for the scam and I should have been smarter than that."It drained us completely."She said the reason she was speaking publicly was to warn others, but she also wanted to ask other families who had been similarly impacted to come forward.The Hellenic Club was cleared of breaching gaming regulations for not recording the Kasurinens problem gaming incidents. (Supplied: Hellenic Club)Gambling laws 'vague and uncertain': ACATACAT cleared the Hellenic Club of breaching gaming regulations for not recording the Kasurinens' problem gaming incidents.The relevant clause in the ACT's gambling code of practice says that a club must enter such incidents into a register within three days of "becoming aware of" a problem gambling incident.But the club was cleared of a breach, as none of the current or former employees "said that they were aware of any signs of problem gambling" in regard to the Kasurinens.ACAT said its decision on the issue had "arisen from vague and uncertain laws"."The regulatory framework does not define what are signs of having a gambling problem, nor does it define behaviours which, seen in context, may amount to signs of having a gambling problem," the ACAT judgment said.It also raised questions about whether staff were adequately trained to identify problem gambling behaviour.The ACT's gambling code of practice requires all club staff to have a Responsible Conduct of Gambling (RCG) certificate.To get that, they must complete a training program which includes learning a 32-item gambling behaviour checklist.However, ACAT said the checklist did not contain any of the behaviours set out in the code's clause that defined problem gambling.'Significant reform' coming to ACT gaming industryACT Minister for Gaming Reform Marisa Paterson said the Kasurinens' experience exemplified the impact of gambling harm in the community."What they've gone through over the past few years has just been horrendous," she said.ACT Gaming Reform Minister Marisa Paterson says the gambling industry will undergo major reforms in the coming months. (ABC News: Ian Cutmore)Ms Paterson said in the coming months, the industry in the ACT would be subjected to a "significant reform agenda", to reduce gambling harms."The reforms that we will bring to the Assembly will require a whole revision of the code of practice; it will be an entirely new structure of legislation and requirements on clubs."There will need to be significant training to see these laws implemented in full."ACAT still needs to hand down fines to the Hellenic Club, so Ms Paterson declined to comment on the specifics of the case until it was completed.However, she did describe it as a "test case decision.""It absolutely will be something that the government is very committed to looking at, the outcomes of this decision once this case is finalised," she said.Ms Paterson said analysis of problem gambling incidents reported at Canberra clubs showed the majority of incidents reported in the ACT were people making multiple cash withdrawals, to get around the $200 withdrawal limit.She indicated that could be addressed in the government's changes."Currently in the territory EFTPOS withdrawals are allowed, and one of our commitments at the last election was to see a ban on EFTPOS withdrawals and ATM withdrawals because we know that they are significantly contributing to the harm," Ms Paterson said.