A Leader Doth Not a Statesman Make | Interview: Steven B. Smith

We here at The Remnant tend to evaluate statesmen according to the Lincoln-Wilson spectrum: The good ones are more like Abraham Lincoln, and the bad ones are more like Woodrow Wilson. But because Jonah Goldberg loves a good argument, we’ve invited friend-of-the-show Professor Steven Smith of Yale University to throw a few wrenches in our statesmanship formula. Listen in as Steven and Jonah discuss the difference between statesmanship and leadership, national education, stateless statesmen, crisis, noble ambition, Charles de Gaulle, Claremonsters, illiberalism, the boringness of leftist ideology, and demagoguery. Show Notes: The Remnant is a production of ⁠The Dispatch⁠, a digital media company covering politics, policy, and culture from a nonpartisan perspective. To access all of The Dispatch’s offerings—including the Saturday Ruminant, audio versions of all our articles and newsletters, and Jonah’s twice-weekly G-File—⁠click here⁠. Instructions on how to set up your members-only feed can be found here, and if you’d like to remove all ads from your podcast experience, consider becoming a premium Dispatch member ⁠by clicking here⁠. Want to see more of The Dispatch in Google search? Add Us as a Preferred Source Jonah Goldberg is editor-in-chief and co-founder of The Dispatch, based in Washington, D.C. Prior to that, enormous lizards roamed the Earth. More immediately prior to that, Jonah spent two decades at National Review, where he was a senior editor, among other things. He is also a bestselling author, longtime columnist for the Los Angeles Times, commentator for CNN, and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. When he is not writing the G-File or hosting The Remnant podcast, he finds real joy in family time, attending to his dogs and cat, and blaming Steve Hayes for various things. The podcast transcription below was generated using artificial intelligence and may include occasional errors or misspellings. Jonah Goldberg 0:00 Join "The Dispatch Podcast" for a pre-election livestream on Monday, October 26th at 7:00 PM Eastern. Join me, Jonah Goldberg, along with Steve Hayes and guests Chris Stirewalt, Sarah Isgur, and Chuck Todd to dive into the biggest questions related to the upcoming election. Will the Democrats maintain their momentum, or could Republicans defy expectations? With less than two weeks left, that's four Zakarias, what could change in the final days before voters go to the polls? The episode will be released in "The Dispatch Podcast" feed as normal on Tuesday morning, but we hope you'll join us live on YouTube on Monday at 7:00 PM Eastern. And you can subscribe to our YouTube channel by clicking on the link in the show notes so you never miss a show. See you on Monday. [upbeat music] Music 1:07 Ladies and gentlemen, Music 1:09 can I please have your attention? Can you dig it? [crowd cheering] Jonah Goldberg 1:20 Greetings, dear listeners. This is Jonah Goldberg, host of "The Remnant Podcast," brought to you by "The Dispatch" and Dispatch Media. Very excited about today's guest. He's a return guest. Uh, you might recall him from his last appearance here on our, our, our special "Who Was Leo Strauss?" episode, which we settled dispositively, and no one has any more questions about Leo Strauss for all time. Steven B. Smith is the Alfred Cowles Professor of Political Science and Philosophy at Yale University. He's the co-director of Yale's Center for the Study of Representative Institutions. His books include "Political Philosophy: Modernity and Its Discontents" and "Reclaiming Patriotism in an Age of Extremes." His new book, which is really wonderful, I've been going in and out of it for a while now, is, uh, "On Statesmanship." No subtitle. Very, very bold move. Professor, welcome back, and, uh, what's your book about? Steve B. Smith 2:14 Well, Jonah, it's a pleasure to be back with you. My book, as ti- as you indicated in the title, is "On Statesmanship." Why? Interactive transcripts are available to Premium members. Join to follow along with the audio. Join Now More We Think You’d Like